Summary of Legislative Debate on Apportionment, 7 January 18411
Mr. WOODSON moved that the House do now resolve itself into committee of the whole on the question
of the apportionment of representation, which was agreed to, and the House resolved itself accordingly. Mr. Woodson in the chair.
The resolution of the Senate was then read fixing the ratio at 12,000 souls for a Senator, and 5,000 for a representative.2
Mr. MURPHY moved to strike out 12,000 and insert 10,000.
Mr. Beal moved to insert 15,000.
Mr. HARDIN spoke against the principle to making the number of Senator’s too large; he would
oppose the striking out and adhere to the proportion fixed in Senate.
Mr. WEBB was in favor of striking out, and having a lesser ratio for the Senate. If it was
increased in number, it did not follow that the House must be equally increased.
The question on striking out was then taken and the House refused to strike out.
The ques[t]ion being on the adoption of the resolution, Mr. Carpenter moved to strike ou[t] 5,000, the proposed ratio for a representative, as otherwise some counties not having
that population would have no Representative at all. Mr. C. contended that each county ought to have a representative. He therefore, wished
a less number to be inserted for that ratio. The people would never complain of the
expense of being represented.
Mr. PARSONS was in favor of a lesser ratio, nearly 50 counties did not come up to 5,000 in population.
Mr. LINCOLN laid down the principle that we should be represented in proportion to the number
of population, not according to county divisions: the contrary doctrine was anti-republican.
A county ought not to have a representative merely because it is a county, and without
regard to its inhabitants. Mr. L. confessed the question was involved in difficulty: at present, however, he was inclined
to adhere to the ratio proposed by the Senate.
Mr. CARPENTER explained.
Mr. WHITE was of the opinion that a Representative in this House represented the people, and
not particular counties. It did not appear to him practicable to fix the ratio by
counties. He was in favor of the number in the resolution.
Mr. LOGAN was against that number he went for each county having a representative: he wished
no county to have more than two representatives and each county at least to have one.
Mr. DODGE believed each county had a right to be heard upon this floor: he thought the ratio
too high, and that many counties would not be represented. He would fix the ratio
at 3000: the people would more cheerfully pay the tax for representatives, than any
other tax.
Mr. DOLLINS was in favor of striking out and inserting a less ratio: else, 50 counties at least
would have no representative. He replied to the position assumed by mr. Lincoln, when
On motion of mr. EWING the committee rose reported progress and asked leave to sit again, which was granted.
On motion of mr. LOGAN, the House adjourned.4
1A superior summary of Abraham Lincoln’s remarks appears in the Peoria Register and North-Western Gazetter of the same date. The various accounts of this debate disagree on its date. The Peoria Register has it occurring on January 7. The Illinois State Register has it occurring on Thursday, January 9, but Thursday was actually January 7. A cursory
glance at the page shows that this was undoubtedly a mis-print. The House Journal
has debate occurring on the issue on Thursday, January 7, and on Saturday, January
9.
Illinois House Journal. 1840. 12th G. A., 200, 205.
2The Senate adopted this resolution on January 4, 1841.
Illinois Senate Journal. 1840. 12th G. A., 24, 135.
3The letter “M” in “Mr.” at the beginning of this paragraph and that above appears
to be italicised, but the editors determined this was probably a printing error.
In both cases, we have regularized the letter.
4On January 11 and 13, the House resolved itself into the Committee of the Whole to
consider the Senate resolution. On January 13, the House struck out 5,000 as the
basis for representation in the House and inserted in lieu thereof 4,500. The House
further reduced the number to 4,000 by a vote of 47 yeas to 37 nays, with Lincoln
not voting. The House adopted the Senate resolution as amended by a vote of 47 yeas
to 36 nays, with Lincoln not voting. On January 14, the Senate rejected the House
amendment by a vote of 12 yeas to 23 nays. On January 25, the House refused to recede
from its amendment by a vote of 32 yeas to 54 nays, with Lincoln voting yea. The
Senate and House created a committee of conference to resolve the disagreeing vote.
On January 28, the conference committee reported back the Senate resolution as amended,
recommending that the Senate adopt the House amendment, and the Senate concurred.
The Senate resolution as amended became the basis for the ratio of representation
found in section one of an apportionment bill that became law on February 26.
Illinois House Journal. 1840. 12th G. A., 210, 219, 220-21, 277, 285, 298; Illinois Senate Journal. 1840. 12th G. A., 164, 190, 205, 214, 217.
Printed Document, 1 page(s), Illinois State Register (Springfield), 15 January 1841, 2:6.